Category: Dating and Relationships
Hello everyone.
So I have another of my famous questions that I would like some insight on.
As some of you may know, crazy i's and I have been dating for a little over two years. We're still living together as of right now. Well we are no longer dating. He broke up with me the day before Valentine's day. He said it was because of my jealousy issues, my lack of trust in him, the fact that I don't do an equal amount of house chores, other daily skills, and that I have a hard time getting from point A to B. Well, I am blind and I've been trying to get help with all that crap, but no teacher I've worked with have really done that well. Anyway so the problems I had with him is that he is constantly losing his things, he procrastinates, he gets easily annoyed about everything and has low tolerance for people, our lack of communication, and the way he talks to me when we have an argument. He believes that if he's being nice, I don't hear him since he's generally a nice person but if he talks to me and says shut the fuck up or whatever, that I will hear him better as in the message would be better understood since I'm a stubborn person. He is also stubborn, But that doesn't give him an excuse to talk to me in such a way. I believe that is not a good and respectful approach. In my last relationship before this, the ex was abuseive and he talked the same way if not worse on a daily basis. So, having said all of that, since he is the one who broke up with me, do you think he should give me a second chance; ie him and I have some time apart take a break from each other and see how we can fix our issues and then try and get back together? We had recently been involved in friends with benefits crap where we were having sex and all and well now he's not ok with it even though he agreed to it in the first place. Our lease is up sometime next month and he wants to kick me out knowing I really have nowhere to go since my friends don't have stable homes and are constantly moving, my parents' house isn't an option really so my friends and I think he's being unreasonable. So I still love and care about him but part of me hates him right now. I think he should give me a second try even though he said we had two years to work this shit out, but I have recently started goingv to an individula therapist who is helping me work on my issues. I would like Quorey to give me a chance to change and prove myself. We had also seen a couples' therapist who I believe was more on his side than mine, and I thought they were supposed to be unbiast. I am really hurting right now. I generally don't give second chances myself to guys because most of it was bad history due to him being physically, mentally, verbally, and emotionally abussive, b ut AQuorey is someone special and I feel he gave up on me too easily. I am the type of person who tries to see the good in people and I try to look past their faults and try and have more patience and tolerance. He is a good person, I just don't like some of the issues we had and I felt like he pointed out mine before looking at himself. I know what I need to work on but I feel that wasv all he was doing point fingersv at me. I do really miss him though and the good parts of oour relationship. I want him back.
sounds like you are love s struck in a major wayway. he's the one that broke up with you. he wants you back now?
well I'm the one who wants him back but he's not sure if he can do it a second time as much as he would like to he says he doesn't think it will work out.
so its not you that's giving him the second chance. its the other way around. the only way you'll know that is if you try. however as much as you love him, that wouldn't gonna fix all the issues.
I know that. and if he was to ask me to come back to him, should I? Is it really worth all that pain? I would never go back to him a third time though. That is certain.
do you love him enough to try a second time? to me it sounds like you do, but only ou can make that choice.
Yes, I love him enough to try at least one more time. I have always been willing to look past his faults and all.
I am breaking my own rule and actually going to dispense with love advice ahem ahem cough cough ...
So, be rational and not emotional. Both of you. Whatever is upsetting you you need to clarify. No fuzzy thinking, no buzz words like doesn't do enough housework, or is not independent enough, or can't find their way from point A to point B, or is angry all the time.
Clarify. Words and actions have actual meaning. So identify with each other what your mutual trouble is with each other, and then make a joint decision as to if you can get along enough to stay together, what that actually is going to mean, and what you can each reasonably give to and expect from the relationship.
Also, are you, and is he, devoted to the other or devoted to the idea of the relationship itself? That would be an important distinction.
But I am one of those that thinks love is a lifestyle. And one of thoe who has made a ton of mistakes, and usually man enough to apologize for said mistakes. An honorable apology does not contain any excuses. Perhaps an explanation after the fact can be useful. But not part of the apology itself. It also doesn't mean you're completely wrong and they're completely right, it just means you apologize fr a specific behavior or set of behaviors.
I've had occasion to apologize to my daughter for losing patience and telling her to quit acting like a dramatic 12-year-old. That didn't mean I was entirely wrong and she was entirely right: it meant I was apologizing for my method or behavior in that instance, when she was legitimately upset.
Rationality works wonders. With a dose of personal integrity so you'll admit when wrong without just caving like a waif or a beaten dog.
OK here's how I see things. I think that you should take this one step at a time. Note, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just giving you options. As much as you'd like to have him give you a second chance, you should give him reasons beyond love as to why he should grant them to you. Also I don't think that time limits is effective in this case, because you can't change certain aspects of your life overnight. You sound as you're all worked up, and I'm so sorry to here you are in such an unpleasant stressful situation. I understand you're concerned, but think about how he feels tooo. I know you do, but you have to be ready to accept one of two things. He'll give you a second chance. He simply might not be willing to. Not everything is your fault, it's a relationship of two so maybe he's stubborn as well when he's unwilling to give it a try after seeing you change and such. I'm not judging, I'm just stating how I feel about this. He's at fault in this too, I'm sorry. Him playing the blame game on you simply doesn't do it for me. I feel as though it's this fear of change, negative change in a longterm relationship, and I do understand. But you should really really sit down and talk things with him, when you're both calm and cool to come to an agreement. You might love him enough, but does he love you enough to see you fix your issues and move on? I wish you the best in resolving this conflict of emotions.
I told him that we should take it one step at a time but I'm not sure what that involves. Like I know it will take me a long time to build up gthat kind of relationship with someone else that I had with him. Both of us would like to get back together, but he's not sure if he can deal with it all again and I really want him to let me change and prove myself. I have heard it takes one person to change to affect the relationship.
If you don't know what 'take it one step at a time' means for both of you, you should discuss it and decide mutually on what that means.
Far too much woo abounds regarding this stuff, all sorts of fuzzy nondefinable phrases.
You'd be surprised at how little blame is left once everything is rationally and honestly out in the open.
Yes, but it takes the other person to allow such changes to occur before throwing the relationship out the window. He ca't change you, you can change your own behavior, good thing you are aware of it because many people tend to put the blame on the other person, look who's doing it in this instance? I don't know what it might involve, as I don't know the dynamic of your relationship. But you can't do all the changing and effort to save it. It takes too
Ok, so I may be a bit unpopular for a second here, but please hear me out. i'm not being biased, but I've written for a relationship advice column before and i've done some legit work as a relationship counselor. And I have to say, no one's really hit the nail on the hed yet with this one. Sorry.
So OP, I've read your post twice now, just to ensure I'm not missing anything here.
Here's the short version of what I have to say: You need time apart. As in, not living together, not sleeping together, not seeing each other, not talking, at least for a while. Do I think he owes you a second chance? Honestly, no. Do I think you should take the second chance if he offers it, that really depends. here's what my reasoning is based on.
Oh, where to start. Let's start with jealousy. Are you really that jealous of him? are you mistrustful? Whether you are or you're not, that's how he's reading you. So now, do you have reasons for this jealousy? Do you have reasons to distrust him? Are they related directly to him or do they stem from your past relationship problems. If they stem from your past personal issues, then he's right to be aggravated with you for them. Insecurity is the main killer of relationships.And no one likes to be accused of doing something they're not doing, and worse, compared to an ex, even by associated action. And I don't really buy that "love thyself before you can love someone else" montra, but in order to be in a relationship that is successful, you need to be confident in yourself and confident in the person you're with. If my man talks to some female on the phone, I trust him when he's telling me it's a friend. I trust him because though I've been scarred by past relationships, He's never given me a reason to distrust him. So if I have any issues of jealousy every now and then, I have a come to yeezus moment with myself--lol--and I ask myself, does he deserve my rath of jealousy, or am I blowing things out of proportion because some prick hurt me in the past. If it's me, I keep my mouth shut and I deal with myself. And in all cases in which I felt a twinge of jealousy, it wasn't called for in terms of my relationship with my current partner. If you're throwing your trust issues in your ex's face and he's not really to blame, then yes, he's probably gotten sick and tired of it and I can't really blame him for not wanting to try again. I've been with a jealous partner and it was stifling. If he ever found I was so much as talking to another male, no matter who he was, his immediate response was: "ah. so are you interested in him?"
I got so aggravated with him twoard the end of the relationship that I said "of course I'm interested." on several occasions. Because it wasn't getting through to him that not every guy I talked to would be a person of romantic interest--and in fact, I'm not a cheater and never was, so as long as I was in the relationship, I wasn't interested in other people. His insecurity was a huge turn off for me, and eventually, I did become disinterested in him, and though I loved him, a second chance was a no-no, because jealousy is a toxic bitch that was slowly killing both of us. lol.
Now, if your ex beau really did give you reasons to be jealous and distrustful, then perhaps you need to ask yourself: has he been as invested in this as I am? If he was equally invested, he wouldn't be doing things to lose your trust in the first place. in that case, a second chance is a bad deal for both of you, because a successful relationship thrives on an equal emotional investment from both parties. Trust me, nothing hurts more emotionally, and nothing's a bigger blow to your self esteem than being with a partner who doesn't love you back the way you love him. It's a lonely, lonely type of relationship, and it's not a hurt you let go of easily.
So if that's the case, if he's not as invested in you as you are in him, it's time for you to cut your losses and work on yourself to build up your own self esteem. No matter what you've put into the relationship, groveling at the feet of someone who's not as invested in it anymore as you are doesn't make it valid. It wont' make you happy.
Now. Onto the next issue. lol:
You say that part of the reason your boyfriend broke it off with you was because of the "fact that I don't do an equal amount of house chores, other daily skills, and that I have a hard time getting from point A to B.". Let's just focus on that for a second. Leo, those aren't buzz words. Buzz words would be something vague like: "you're not listening to me, and you don't talk to me enough." Not having the basic skills down for one or both people can actually be a real issue in a relationship, believe it or not, especially if the couple is living together. You then go on to say: he wants to kick me out knowing I really have nowhere to go since my friends don't have stable homes and are constantly moving, my parents' house isn't an option really so my friends and I think he's being unreasonable." That, to me, signifies that you are quite dependent on him, more so then he is on you. You're dependent on him and you justify that because you're blind and you had bad teachers. Is he blind as well? Do you think that perhaps under the surface he's treating you in a verbally abusive manner because he finds you to be burdensome due to the fact that you lack some of the skills that might make you self-sufficient? Because, who are you kidding. thats' no way to talk to a live-in partner, adn not on a regular basis especially.
He doesnt' treat you as his equal. That' much I could grasp from the way he talks to you, as you described. he talks to you as if he has authority over you--and that's not right from either sex, and from either partner. You say you've been in an abusive relationship before, so maybe you don't notice the magnitude of disrespect and authority from teh words you paraphrased, but thats' just what it is. No one has the right to talk to anyone like that, no matter how frustrated they are with the lack of communication in a relationship.
My first point here is that neither partner should be entirely dependent on the other in a relationship. it's all about give and take. I read somewhere recently that in order for a relationship to be successful, both partners have to be 100% complete on their own, so that when they get with each other, they complement each other rather than completing each other. This is so true in a long-term relationship. How many housewives get left in the dust after a divorce because the man was the single breadwinner in the family and she has no work experience, and, allow me to be stereotypical here for example's sake, how many men live on bologna sandwiches for a year after a divorce because their wife was the only one capable of cooking real meals in the family. This is truly stereotypical, but I think my point is clear. In this day and age, both parties should be able to do things independent of each other, and rely on one anotehr to make life a bit easier, not because they dont' have the skills necessary tofunction on their own.
I mean, sure, married couples rely on each other for tons of stuff. Same thing with long-term couples. But you need to be successful standing on your own two feet before you can truly be on an equal playing field with a partner. Maybe some might disagree, and maybe this sort of thing changes over time within a relationship, but in a relatively new relationship--yes, two years qualifies as still new--neither of you should be depending on the other for crucial day-to-day stuff, such as shelter food prep, cleanup and stuff. He probably won't ever tell you this, but maybe your lack of skills are as much a turn off for him as his procrastination is for you. Maybe the fact that you can't get from Point a to point b, as you said, and you aren't doing an equal share of housework frustrates him to the point where he cant' stand it, just as it frustrates you that he loses things all the time. Him losing things all the time might be subject to change with some easy solutions. You, on the other hand, should probably take this time to get on your own two feet and learn how to truly be self-sufficient. If you do, the ball is truly in your court, whether you get back wht this guy or not. If you change things on your own terms, in your own way, without his help, you have way more to show for it than you would if you stayed under his wing through all of that.
Look. For instance, I hate to vacuum, so my significant other does that on a regular basis. We've established that that's his chore. But I can do it, and do it well, if he's not around or can't. I can pick up the slack and be self-sufficient. And I'm totally blind and havent' had much formal training, by the way.
He's not a fan of changing our son's diapers--I do that better than he does and I dont' mind as much. But he can change them in a pinch, and he can do it right. So we're on an equal playing field. See?
I was with an ex once, and beyond the fact that we were incompatible in a number of ways, he was very clumbsy and couldn't do house chores to save his life. That annoyed me to no end. I couldnt' stand the fact that he couldn't mop the floor if I wasn't there to do it, that he'd break glasses all the time while simply getting something to drink, that his stuff was always strewn all over the floor and he spilled food on a regular basis. It might seem harsh, but I couldnt' deal with it, and he refused to really get down to fixing it on account of his blindness and lack of training. It compounded and merged with all our other incompatibilities, and it got under my skin so, so , so much. And I'm not proud of it, but I'd recall his extreme dependence on me each time things were going wrong. Bad move on my part, but that one was just a pawn to use in a relationship that was goign south. I didnt' really view him as my equal in that respect.
So I'm with a guy now who leaves messes occasionally, who does things that bug me, but not to that extent, and I view him as my equal in all respects. He makes up for some of the messes he makes by being an excellent cook, by being a wonderful father, by holding down his share on teh home front. And he views me in the same light. Equality in a relationship is very important. It gives you both a basis of respect in terms of each other. Self-sufficiency is also very important, because if you're self-sufficient, you don't stifle each other. You are capable, and you can rely on each other as comfort permits instead of being reliant out of pure necessity.
If he's telling you to, "Shut the fuck up," is that something you're willing to live with and settle for? I understand that we all have our moments and we lash out and snap at others, but if it happens a lot, then I think it's time to question it. There are ways to disagree, without being disagreeable. If there's no respect for one another in the relationship, how long can it really last? I know I couldn't be happy in that setting. I'm sure you both do things that frustrate the other, but how each of you handle it is what will matter in the end. In my experience, trying to convince someone that they should grant a second chance doesn't end up paying off. even if you succeed, you'll never know if he did it because he wanted to, or because he felt guilty, or worse, sorry for you. These are just my musings and ramblings. I hope you can find something helpful in them.
So now, to drive my points home, I think what you really need right now is a ton of space. Not talk of a second chance, not sex on a friends with benefits basis, not a promise to reconcile, not a mutual living arrangement. The core of the matter is that you've let emotions run a muck in this relationship, and while leo is right that you need to be rational about it, talking here isnt' going to fix anything. From the looks of it, you've talked each other in circles, and now it's time for change, because one of you has quite obviously had enough. Change is now the only option. Talk is really cheap if actions are not taken, and the talk wears people down when a requested change is lacking.
So now, it's time for both of you to work on yourselves, at a distance, and to realize that you need to improve yourself for your own sake, not for the relationship.
If, by chance, you later rediscover each other and you rekindle the spark, you'll both be better people by that point if you've improved on a personal level.
You, for instance, should probably continue the personal therapy to enhance your self esteem as you've been rightfully doing. You said you've been in your share of bad relationships--how much time have you taken to get to know yourself and to fix any of those issues from those past relationships before getting into this one. Was there as sufficient time between the abusive relationship and the one you've just ended? Have you had enough time to deal with the emotions on a personal level in order to not take the baggage from the previous relationships into this one? Doesn't look like it, just from your few posts.
So take this time just to be yourself. Take this time to be ok on your own. Both literally and emotionally, so that the next time a great guy is in your orbit, whether it be this guy or someone else--you have a ton to offer him instead of just a bunch you can benefit from by being with him. Take the time to establish your daily skill set, your confidence and your self-worth--and you cant' really do that if your ex is your current roommate and sometimes also your fuck buddy. There's too much that's transpired there for you to really make the appropriate changes without stifling one another.
Finally, I know you love the guy. He probably loves you too. But it's not fair of you to ask him for a second chance before some real changes have been made. It's not like you're married, have kids together, have financial assets together, etc. You have a two year relationship during which you cohabited. that's a lot, dont' get me wrong, but it's not enough to sustain you through the changes, probably.
It's also not fair for either of you to promise the other that once you've made the necessary changes, you'll go back to each other. It's not fair to hold out for that possibility. Because if you do, you'll be stuck in that sort of a limbo and it could be painful for one or both of you. The hard truth is that as you make these necessary changes, you'll grow as a person. You especially. I'm focusing on you because I dont' know his side of the story, or whether he's even willing to make any changes, etc. I'm not being biased against you, I'm just looking at this with you in mind.
Anyway, yoru changes, if you make them, will likely transform you as a person. Picture yourself with a good grasp on daily living skils and minus the insecurities in terms of relationships. Don't you think those kinds of changes constitute growth as a person? And if you do grow as a person, if either of you does, it's not fair to assume that you'll both want to return to this relationship, or even that you'll want to start over together once more.
At this point, I think you both require space, and a ton of time and freedom to build yourselves up as individuals. If a second chance, happens, it happens. if it doesn't, then dont' force it. Don't make each other long-term promises, stay in touch occasionally maybe, but don't interfere in each other's lives while you do this individual thing.
That's my fair assessment of the matter. Take it or leave it. lol.
PS: Anthony's right. It's what you're willing to live with. Can you stand him losing patience with you all the time? Can he stand you being dependent on him for a lot of the house chores? Can you stand his procrastination? Can he stand your jealousy?
We're never perfect as humans. So we need to take our imperfections, and find someone willing to accept them to a degree. That's compatibility for ya.
Not to contradict my statement about change, because change and improvement is necessary. But even if you do improve and you do gain a functional skill set, etc. you won't be perfect. So you need to find someone who will be willing to put up with your particular brand of quirks and shortcomings, and vice versa. Sometimes, you just have to chock it up to incompatibility, and wrong place or wrong time. shit just goes down that way, and rather than being bitter and regretful about it, it's best to be constructive and learn from it instead.
The last few posts make a lot of sense. I had prepared something to write but rebooted my machine here and so lost it.
Anyway, the jist of it is I see entirely what Bernadetta is saying. None of us are independent, but you need to be self-reliant. It is true that really dependent people very often become resented. This is only natural.
There is a difference between what Bernadetta and I both are, being primary breadwinners while our partners were stay at home parents. this is not a role thing - I've known quite a few stay-at-home dads like Bernadetta's partner, it comes from the modern thinking that it is best for the kids. That is usually weighed and thought through and even calculated in terms of costs versus costs of daycare and other things while both parents work.
That is all different from simple reliance on the other person as you are doing, from what it sounds like.
Anyway I perhaps should have taken my own advice and not responded, seems like Bernadetta has more experience with some of this. I just a average dude who has shared a life with the same Chick for over 20 years, with all the ups and downs that that brings.
no leo. You have a lot of experience. I just know how to put it into writing, and I've seen my share of disasters--enough to give me a perminant radar of warning signs and red flags as they pertain to unhealthy relationships. I dont' know how much this says about me, and maybe I'm more skeptical than some. I try to look at it from a very realistic perspective. You've been with the same person for twenty plus years--you're obviously doing a whole slew of the right things. No relationship is a walk in the park, but some just work, while other's definitely can't. But I do stand by that idea that two people should be self-sufficient individuals before they form a working, successful couple. I've long outgrown the over-romanticized idea that the poor female waif needs the strong, macho type mail to complete her. Those love songs taht go something like: you complete me, I can't breath without you, sound more to me like ticking time bombs than expressions of true love.
True love isn't based on the completion of one another--at least not in the working of a marriage or a long-term relationship. It might feel that way in the mushy honemoon phase, but in my oppinion, you can respect someone much more if you know they can stand on their own, adn that you can stand on your own as well--and you can apreciate the fact taht you can complement each other al the more. 7
maybe this was said I'm not sure, but dont change just to get him back.
Thanks Bernadetta.
I guess I never gave those stereotypes as much mind because I am more attracted to strong women, and I have never seen people who actually bought that stuff. Well not never, but the few I have I thought of as rather primitive though you might consider them dysfunctional. I'll admit I am just not that observant about relationships.
Usually She tells me about what is going on with other people like that before I would ever have even noticed. A bit absentminded that way, perhaps. I don't know.
Good way to sum everything up from all the above posters. I was thinking along the lines of what Anthony said though. I understand that it is hard for those who may not get how some people just aren't self-sufficient to understand why they are like that, but no matter how irritating it might be for him, he does not have the rite to tell you to shut the fuck up. You do not need to put up with that. A real man would bite his tongue, maybe put some authority in his voice to set a serious tone, and ask you to listen to what he is saying and to consider some suggestions.
Both of you have some faults which it seems like you have at least admitted to yours. It isn't my business to ask this but at least answer it to yourself. Has he owned up to his temper? I would be worried that it may not be left at some harsh words one day, and in at least with my experiences it only got worse until the couple was legally not allowed to live together. And because of this the kids now have to suffer, because the parents are still bickering back and forth years later and trying to get the kids to side together. Don't make excuses for either one of you. At least ask yourself what you want, and what you are willing to do on your part.
I like what Bernadetta said above when she said something along the lines of it takes two people to make it work, because it's true. It is nice, whether the couple is sighted or not, to have a mutual, equal level where both can do things for each other, say like walk through the park, hold hands, and travel safely. Whereas say you have a couple who has one great traveler, but the good traveler has to look out for his girlfriend who isn't so good at it. So in the first example you two could hold hands and walk wherever you want, whenever you want with no worries. See the analogy?
Hear me because I’m coming to you with love, not being mean.
Bernadetta has given you much of what I say, so I’ll add to hers.
You’ve been to therapy, and that shows he’s tried to work things out.
Next, it has been two years, so you’ve had plenty of time to work on your issues he disagrees with, and you have failed in his opinion.
Next, I don’t know at what level his skills and such are either, but maybe he’s not able to help you, or what is called pull you up, or cover the things you don’t have, so everyone suffers.
You’ve had your second chance already, because you had a third party involved, and it didn’t help.
I don’t know why you can’t learn, or even if you need to learn what has been taught you, so I can’t agree your teachers were bad. The reason I say your teachers were not bad, is because you natural pick up things on your own by trying.
I’m not suggesting you go out and try to get from point A to B, that is dangerous, but I’m thinking there is a reason you don’t learn it. That reason I don’t know, but I’ve seen it in other blind persons, and I personally have had blind girlfriends like you.
I just covered all they couldn’t do, and didn’t hold it against them if they lived with me. That isn’t what everyone wants to do, or can do.
I don’t excuse his mistreatment of you verbally, but I understand it. Frustration makes some people lash out. They lash out hoping it will make you leave, because he probably feels responsible for you, and doesn’t know a way out, but he wants out.
Let him out! I’ll say that again.
Let him out!
Giving him sex, saying you love him, and all that is nice when you are in bed and it is physical, but when you get out, and the dishes aren’t washed, or you can’t do this or that, the lack comes back.
You need a man that doesn’t care about your lacking, and loves you for exactly what you are. If you can’t get from A to B he doesn’t care. He’ll take you, or provide a way.
If you can’t cook, clean, wash, he’ll do it, or hire it done. This man will want you for the sex, companionship, and all the good things you can give, and I’ll bet you’ve got much to offer.
Let the one you have go! You are mis treating him by making him feel guilty.
Go do whatever you did before you met him. It isn’t his fault your folks don’t have a stable home, or your friends. He’s not your care giver.
If you have to go suffer, it isn’t his fault, it is yours.
Let him go! Find a man that can take care of you.
He has never wanted to be a caregiver and I guess well he often says that he has had to be the "daddy" in his family or the moral support/go to person for the family of his since he is so family oriented. As far as the skills and things I have taught, I think some of them were poorly taught to me and I have practiced with various teachers and family especially when it comes to my travel skills. I have trouble with spatial awareness, cardinal dirrections like telling which way I'm facing to get somewhereand street crossing. He says he loved and cared and was fully invested in me but he says love does not cure all or something like that. Is a person not supposed to love his partner through everything and for who she is? Quorey says he hate who he has become and doesn't know how to change.
Also, the other relationships weren't really that good as one ex was abusive, some cheated on me, some were controlling and had jealousy issues himself, and some just simply ignored me and never gave me the time of day. This recent relationship is the hardest one I've been and there is way more investment in it. I didn't like having a jealous ex myself so when I thought to myself: "What would it be like to have the tables turned on me?" I remembered the jealous ex I had and now it makes me realize how annoying that jealousy was to Quorey.
Oh yeah, someone asked about his skills? Well he has more vision than I but he is visually impaired. His daily skills are better than mine.
Look. I'm sorry to say this, but no matter how much you have invested, whether emotionally or other wise, if it's not working, it's not worth keeping. that's like saying, wel I baught this really good ribeye steak for twenty bucks, but I forgot to cook it and now it's expired...But I cant' get rid of it because this steak cost twenty bucks. Well, if it's expired it's got to go. Sorry sweetie, your relationship has expired. let it go. You said yourself, he doesn't want to be a caregiver, and it seems he has to be that for you. Why are you going to force a man to be what he doesn't want to be just to satisfy a feeling you might have for him. Relationships aren't marked good by how hard you've had it or how much you've invested. You know it's good if the couple can grow together over time, both individually and as a couple, and if they complement each other instead of taring each other down. You need to ask yourself if you really love this person. I know, I know. You're sure you do. I was sure once too. But your ex is right--a strong feeling twoard someone doesnt' cure it all. Love is important, but it's not going to keep a relationship afloat on its own. Besides, if you two really loved each other, he'd be perfectly ok with who you are and how you are right now, and you wouldn't be so steadfast about staying with him. You'd recognize, if you really, truly love him, that the relationship you two had didnt' make him happy. You'd put a lot of stock into his statement that he doesn't like the person he's becoming when he's with you. You'd recognize that--and You'd let it be, because when you truly love someone, you want them to be happy, even if their happiness foregoes your own interests. If my man told me tomorrow that he doesnt' love me anymore enough to stay with me, sure I'd have some questions, but I'd recognize and respect his wishes,and I'd let him go, because I love him, no matter what.
Don't you know the phrase:
If you love him, let him go. If he returns, he loves you back. If he doesnt', he was never yours in the first place.
lol.
Maybe a bit cliche, but it's true.
a lot goes into a long term relationship, and those who think that love can sustain it alone have a lot of learning and growing to do. Love, like sex, is just one aspect of a relationship.
That whole thing about partners seeing each other through thick and thin is only valid if they've grown together, if they have a lot in vested. Again, I don't mean to undermine how much you've invested in your relationship, but being together for a couple of years and living together for a while is not the kind of investment that warrants that be all and end all attitude. Everyone has a right to his and her own freedom. Everyone. Even those who marry and have kids--those who have way, way , way more invested in their relationship than just cohabitation and a rocky couple of years,
do change their minds sometimes. Stand by your partner if you love them, yes, but not to the point where you destroy yourself in the process. it seems like your ex felt he was doing that to himself by being with you. You need to respect that--especially if you really do love him.
Besides, here's teh bright side: at least you two didn't have a kid, and you realized relatively early on--or he did at least--that it couldn't work between you two. Trust me, as time passes, it gets hardera dn harder to walk away, even if you have to. You keep stalling adn stallingand quote unquote, working things out, and honestly, there's a point at which you have to admit that all teh working it out isn't really working anymore. He's reached that point, even if you think it's unfair.
Now have some self-dignity and find a place to move into...You have a month to work on it. I'm sure that at least some sort of temporary arrangement with a friend or family member can be made. And if you can't find a good teacher to get you going on the blindness daily skills, go to one of the nine-month-long training centers. I know, some say they've had bad reputations, but they really truly push you to learn and motivate you to do stuff. Imagine being able to cook from scratch. Imagine making a meal for forty people. All of those who graduate accomplish that, at least to some degree. And even if you never use some of the skills taught at one of the centers, at least you know you were able to accomplish a lot of that in the end. Trust me, that sort of center, if you graduate, does a world of good for your self-worth.
And hey...You have nowhere to live right now anyway, from what you said, so this might be a good transition step for you. Training centers aren't for everyone, but it looks to me like you might make a perfect candidate for one. There's something to think about.
Oh, and, please take my advice and refrain from getting yourself involved in a relationship for a while, at least until you've had time to sort through your own emotions individually a bit. From what I gather in your posts, you've been in a string of not-so-good relationships...That should tell you something. it should tell you that you don't possess enough self-worth to judge whether a person is good for you or not, and you keep making the same errors in choosing men. I'm not saying that to be mean, but again, just so you can recognize what's really going on here. You're not a failure. Everyone makes mistakes. But in order to improve upon them and turn them around, you need to recognize them and change. Get to know yourself and get to understanding your psychological patterns so that you can figure out what to weed out in a man when you're finally more on your feet, and you can start something new again.
Oh, by the way, wayne, I loved your post. Thanks for keeping it real. For once, you wer more blunt than I was. lol. I loved your to-the-point position. You say some good stuff sometimes. lol.
I am looking into going to Colorado for that training program to better my life and travel skills also I hope to gain employment there.
Good idea.
Bernadetta dear, you started the wisdom, and I see you are keeping it going. See, I've told you before, we agree on more then you think.
The CCB is okay, but don't think it is the end and do all. I've dated a girl that graduated from there, and it helped her to a degree, but something just can't be learned, so when you come, not if, enjoy it and take what you can. Expecting them to make you whole is not the way to start.
It be a wonderful way for you to start the next faze in your life as well.
I agree that when you really love some body, you don't care about there short comings as you have, so that right there tells you much. He doesn't love you enough.
There are men that will however, and again, I'm sure you've got something to offer.
I am doing the program not for him, for me so I can gain better independence for my sake and for future relationships. I am nervous about it however but I've heard good things about it.
One correction.
You are doing the probram for you. End. The future relationships could have other issues. Smile.
There is a saying, and I'll not have it correct, but it goes this way.
When I am happy with myself, I am able to give of myself to make someone feel happy being with me.
agreed, wayne.
What I meant is, besides gaining better independence for myself, I can take my skills and make future relationships less stressful and there will be equality and all.
You can't make the same generalization about a training center's outcome based on one person's success there. Just like college isn't for everyone, training centers for the blind are not all for blind people either. You'll get out what you put in to it. Sorry to be a little off topic but I don't agree with those who say "well I met this one person, and she says that the training center didn't do her any good," because I graduated from one myself and it did me a lot of good.
Thank you for taking the time to post this question on the boards. Healing from broken relationships can be a rather difficult thing to do. I find that simply time away from the relationship truly is the best. Sometimes people never change despite how many chances you give them. I think it is best to focus on yourself rather than a relationship. I truly appreciate all the advice given in this board topic. Thank you for the reminders that it really is better for me to focus on myself rather than a broken relationship.
But Ryan, I never said training centers were no good. I said exactly as you said. I've met more then one person who graduated from CCB. Some do well, others do not.
What I am trying to convey is she shouldn't think she will come to CCB and it will work magic. She should take from it what she does and not feel badly because she doesn't have all they claim you need.
Next, training may or may not help in a relationship. I'd look at the traing helping me in my personal fulfillment.
Did you know it is possible to be do good for some people? They want someone to need them, and it angers them when that person tries to excel?
Uh, well, wayne, those kinds of people aren't worth being with anyway...You know, the kind that get angry when you try to excell. They're not relationship material anyway--so don't go giving this girl any ideas, lest she gravitate to another such, uh, winner in the future--seeing as her relationship track record isn't the greatest--and think it's ok to be with someone who drags her down.
o. in all seriousness, if you're too good for someone, they simply dont' deserve you. Trust me. Never worth staying with someone who wants to be needed so much that they clip your wings. Been there, done that. I almost failed out of college because of it. It's so much better--so much more right--to be with someone who encourages you to succeed. To improve. Someone who will motivate and not make you feel guilty for growing and going places and being better. At the risk of generalization and being accused of being too judgmental, I will say that its' never ok or healthy to be with a dragger--downer. Just as unhealthy as being with an abuser. In fact, that is a form of abuse in my oppinion--making someone amount to less than their potential for their own selfish interests. I dont' care if the dragger-downer is the best caregiver, brings you breakfast in bed, smothers you with kisses and sex and affection all the time, leaves the place spic and span. Once they care so much that they drag you down, not letting you improve or allowing you to do stuff for yourself, they're toxic. And they dont' deserve to be in a relationship. They're better off heading a dog or cat rescue, where everyone under their wing won't go anyplace and won't aspire to too much beyond cuddles and love--and food. lol
Bernadetta, your last post. Thank you. I think you're right... that's all...
Yep, and I actually know a girl who went through that recently. She dumped the guy because he was not willing to support her decision to go to CCB. She did not appreciate the fact that he started actually coming around more when she gave him the news, when before he never called her back unless he was invited over to her place to, well, have sex with her or do something satisfactory to him. He even told her flat out that he wasn't supportive of that plan.
I don't know. But if someone had me choose between him, and my music, they're out. I don't appreciate being put in a position to choose, it's not nice. Sure you love the person, but you've gotta keep on being yourself and no one should take that away from you.
I love that "get a dog." Made me smile, but it is so true.
I don't think hes a dragger downer or whatever yall called it. I mmean hes a very independent guy but he was always the morral support for his family since hes the only male in his immediate family also know as the man of the family. His father passed away 3 years ago and he has no brothers but 3 sisters and a mother.
We werent' talking about him.
He's not the one that's a dragger-downer. lol. We were talking about hypothetical instances.
Exactly. We don't know him, so can't say.
what I'm about to say may seem harsh to the OP, but here goes.
based on what you've said on this topic, as well as the other one you created, regarding your level of self-sufficiency, you're the one dragging people down.
whether you like it or not, what others are indirectly telling you, is that, when you depend on someone, no matter who they are, to do most things for you, that totally takes away from what could be a great relationship.
so, when others say that you should focus on yourself before thinking of getting into another relationship, they're totally right.
I know this may be hard to see, but try to put the shoe on the other foot, and think about how you'd feel, if you constantly had to be someone's caretaker.
If I knew her better I could understand the level of this "care taking."
?But when a person knows the level from the start, they sort of commit to it.
Maybe they get in to it for sex, companionship, or whatever reason, but when they need out, they should do it gently, and helpfully, because they knew.
Sure, feelings change, and this doesn't only happen due to Care taking, but when that is the reason, you just can't toss a person on the coals so to speak, you have to help them move, or make it possible.
Even if you have to find them a public shelter, you must help.
Chelsea, you of all people will have to face this, due to your situation, so might think about that to some degree.
The person that decides to be your lover will need to understand a few things, and if that person isd much able, will need to cover some taskor hire them done.
He/she can't get mad later, because you aren't able to do this or that. It is not possible, or difficult for you, so a helping hand would be not only loving, but make life comfortable.
I disagree with you to a degree, wayne. and you even contradict yourself with your last post--at least from your first post on this thread.
The extent to which a person is capable of doing things isn't always clear in teh beginning of a relationship. Remember, when we court people, we attempt to put ourselves in the most preferable light. Not that we're necessarily dishonest with them, just that we maybe conceal some aspect of our imperfections. It happens with everyone. All of the bad habbits adn weirdness, so to speak, is let out of the bag when you move in with womeone, because when you live with them, there's no avoiding what's good and what's bad about them. Home is where comfort lies, and comfort lies in yoru habbits. You cant' say that someone always knows the extent of someone elses capabilities from teh start, therefore.
Also, what if the person isnt' really needy at first, what if the neediness and the dependency starts once the other is already invested to a degree, once they move in together. WHat if this person starts showing their true colors once the cohabitation starts. You said yourself, just like that: maybe he’s not able to help you, or what is called pull you up, or cover the things you don’t have, so everyone suffers.
You’ve had your second chance already, because you had a third party involved, and it didn’t help. In this instance, we knwo that the caregiving partner has pretty much wore out is patience. w
hy is he responsible, then, for helping her land on her feet softly and without impact? Here's what else you said: Let the one you have go! You are mis treating him by making him feel guilty.
Go do whatever you did before you met him. It isn’t his fault your folks don’t have a stable home, or your friends. He’s not your care giver.
If you have to go suffer, it isn’t his fault, it is yours.
Do you disagree with yrou previous statement now? I don't.
I've felt responsible for a dragger-downer before and, guess what? all that person ever did when I felt responsible for him was drag me down. And I was invested in him, I said I loved himbecause it was true. But when you realize a relationship is toxic for you, when you relize enough is enough, it does no one any good for you to be responsible for that person anymore. You knwo that the people who are too nice and too giving get stepped on teh most, right? Because there's a point at which you just need to let the personyou said you love fall on theri ass, so that they can become self-sufficient and get a reality check, and so you can go on with yoru life adn not be exposed to toxicity. Yes, he got into a relationship with her, and yes, heshouldnt' want to change her if she doesnt' want to change herself...But you cant' say it was his fault she was not self-sufficient enough for him. lol. Tahts' something you can't really predict unless it's so obvious that you cant' ignore it.
sorry about the typos in my last post.
But to continue, you said yourself that people lash out from being frustrated. It's only human to get frustrated, and when you're so frustrated that you've had enough, then you're done. Period. There's a point at which a person had to say enough is enough when the other person is not being proactive in terms of growing and developing.
Now, you mentioned Chelsea, and while I may agree with you in other circumstances, wayne, I can't say I do in this particular one. Chelsea may need some help and understanding along the way from a lover or long-term boyfriend should she have one in the future, but Chelsea isn't in need of this help from lack of growth or from laziness, her's is a medical condition.
There's a difference between someone being physically unable to do something because of an illness or condition, and them being honest about it, and between someone who just naturally can't--or won't even put much effort into trying and doing something. A big difference. Maybe some people dont' mind being caregivers in a relationship. But I stand by the idea that self-sufficiency or at the very least resourcefulness is highly important for a person who wants to get in and stay in a long-term relationship.
So maybe someone cant' do something. Well, resourcefulness means knowing how to get it done anyhow, even if you have to hire it done. Resourcefulness means you're in control of your share of the responsibilities anyhow, which also means you're contributing your share to the relationship. Relationships are about give and take. Partnerships are about contributions. You know that, I'm sure. So in that case, even if you've set out to end a relationship amicablly, if you're so frustrated with a person that you cant' deal with them anymore, you naturallly make them become proactive for themselves at the end.
for instance, wayne, if I had no clue how to iron my shirt for an interview and my partner didnt' want to or couldnt' do it, I'd get someone to do it for pay. I wouldnt' bug him to do it for me. Because by hiring someone, I am demonstrating that I can be self-sufficient, and that he can care for me out of want and devotion to me, not out of obligation.
You don't see someone who tells you to shut the fuck up as a dragger downer? You may be right, but you can't deny that that is a shitty way to treat someone. That is a ridiculous, childish way to react when you tell someone something they don't want to hear. Don't give him excuses for that at the very least. Unless you don't want better than that, in which case if you're happy and for some odd reason don't mind being told that, then that's fine for you I guess. That's something I'll never understand, though.
A very good topic has been brought up here. When you feel that you've done all you can possibly do, and just the tension of being around the person begins to make you physically ill, how the hell do you get away when the other person has assumed that your sole roll in life is to be their entertainer and problem solver? This is something I've experienced recently, and let me tell you, it's hell. Speaking from experience, once you do manage to get away from the person, you'll keep your distance, since it was so hard to obtain it to begin with.
Look, not to be harsh, but the longer you stay there, forcing your company on him, when you're clearly not wanted there... the more damage you'll do. Its rather clear this situation is not going to work out. So, its time you get looking for another place to live.
Its rude to just expect you can stay in his place past your welcome. If you're on the lease, i'd still look for another place to go, because he could drop that 30 days notice on you at any time.
You've got to let this go. Start making the healthy changes you need to make.
thank you, Bernadetta, for talking sense, in your last few posts.
while I'll sometimes need more help from people, with regards to some things in life, I know how to ensure that what I need gets done, through being honest about it with myself, which, in turn, allows me to do the same with others. I'm also resourceful in whatever other ways I can be, so Wayne's argument doesn't hold any weight.
the things I've just said, are what make such a huge difference in my world, the world around me, and which I'm certain will do the same for anyone in my corner, be they a partner of mine, or someone else who helps me.
that's very different, I repeat, very different, from the OP's seemingly absolute reliance on people to do things for her that, quite frankly, she could do for herself, if she got off her ass and stopped bitching.
I also disagree with Wayne's statement that it's the responsibility of this guy to help the OP, since he knows her struggle.
she knows her struggle, too, from her posts, and what has she done to better herself/the situation as a whole? nothing, that we've seen.
Bernadetta is absolutely right that attitudes like the one Wayne displays in his last post or two are what enable people like the OP to stay in their comfort zone and bitch, rather than actually make a change, so they'll become better people for themselves, as well as the world around them.
I do think Bernadetta is right. If you know your own struggles and he's just making them easier on you, you'll never even make an effort to do something about them. It's not his responsibility. Why should it? You already know what you have to do, now don't wait till the last minute.
Also, it's not his responsibility to house you. While it would be nice if he did, if he's hit the frustration saturation point, forcing him to share space with you because he feels sorry for you will effectively eliminate any chance you have in the future.
Kate
No ryan, someone who tells you to shut the fuck up is not a dragger-downer. Not necessarily. That little phrase, shut the fuck up, may not the be nicest thing to say, may not be the best way to make a point--not by far. but we've all reached our tipping point. I've said some mean things to the dragger-downers who were in my life. I've said some really harsh things that aren't really indicative of how I am under normal circumstances. You think shut the fuck up is bad?
When my ex told me repeatedly for five or six weeks straight that if I dont' do this or that, if I am not supportive of him the way he wants me to be, etc. If I'm not around to pay attention to him all the time, etc. He's going to go kill himself. THat was his answer to everything. I'll go kill myself. I tried reasoning with him, talking to his parents about getting him help--nothign worked. I realized he was using a suicide threat to manipulate me psychologically to be his little bitch/slave, so you know what? Once when he threatened with suicide again, I said, ok, fine. want me to get you some rope? some cyanide? I'll fuckign help you. wanna jump off a fucking cliff? how about some sleeping pills. I'll help you out--what can I do for ya?
that's what I said. If that was taken out of context, I'd be painted as the harshest, coldest bitch on the planet--or up there with the bes tof them at least. Truth was, I had had enough. Plain and simple.
So how do we know he didnt' start telling her to shut the fuck up after months--even years of being patient with her? after quiet cajoling, being supportive, etc.
People shouldn't be telling each other to shut the fuck up. but what's ideal and what happens among us humans are sometimes two very different things. Even saints had tipping points, I'll bet. So let's not take those few little words out of context here. Maybe she didnt' hear anything he ever said to her till she heard " shut the fuck up" and it stuck. lol. You never really know.
I'm not giving advice here.
But I know how hard it is to not take care of a situation that you know you could. Sort of like Wayne is talking about. And I also know what it's like to get taken advantage of. It's hard for some of us, perhaps without all the words and skills and things that people on here talking a lot about relationships have.
But when you reach a breaking point, it breaks. A slow boil is a boil nonetheless. I'm sure Bernadetta and others are right, mainly because of mistakes I have made that way. I'm just not sure how one gets it done though.
I an not trying to back peddle and I stand on my first post. I am only talking about the things you do know at the start.
In Chelsea's case, a lover would know somethings right away.
What I mean by his responsibility to help her, is if he wants her gone instead of making it hard, find her a way out, even if it is the public shelter. No, he is not responsible for her, but he can do something about getting loose.
Now, that might not be what she wants, but he's not responsible for that, or making her feel good, only getting her placed. She has to do the rest.
Again, I totally stand by my first post, but Chelsea made me think about the things you do know about from the start.
Not Chelsea, but the post should be making a move, and yesterday, even if it is the public shelter. It is not fair to make him wait, and struggle. She should set a time, like a week, and get to it.
I agree with you, bernadetta. Sometimes we say things that aren't necessarily ideal, but we all have our limit, and a breaking point when enough is enough. I mean really. My ex, well not exactly, but, for example, when I'd express how I felt about things he was doing without being confrontational, all the time he'd say well if you don't like it I can help you end it, you're so mediocre, you need to have some more knowledge, I know more than you and stupid shit like that. I of course always thought he was right and till this day I'm still working with myself when making healthy choices for relationships because I can't allow myself to be seen or treated as an option like he did, and damn it's hard. Anyhow, Three fucking years he had me hanging on a string, dropping me and picking me up when he wanted to. And well I put up with it until one day he said the same thing to me, and I blew up on him, telling him to fuck off, and that I was no longer going to allow myself to be treated by some lousy relationship material like him, and that I hated him for playing around with my feelings and that I wish there was a hell for him to rot. I told him well it is what I want, so I don't need your help. Maybe i was harsh. But i felt hurt and played around with. Oh, and you know what he had to say/ Don't let your strength turn you into someone reckless... wow really? a haha lol! anyhow, I also don't think, though, that I'd resort to saying "shut the fuck up" when in argument all the time I want silence, I mean I just bite my tongue, but it sure as hell is hard.
I don't know if you guys should get back together.
If he was abusive to you? the answer would be no if I were you.
I know someone in some previous post had said something about not knowing the faults of someone in the beginning of meeting them. But would it kill us to be honest up front and tell each other our faults before pursuing the relationship?I believe that would minimize a lot of problems down the road?
Okay, so if you say this, how much did he know about your abilities, or lack of them before you started the relationship?
I can't asked about him, because you've not said you want to leave.
I agree with Write Away's posts. Very well thought out. In fact muc better than I probably would have said it.
I don't know if you should have a conversation saying, here's a list of all my faults, do you still want to be with me? I'm not saying that one should hide them in the beginning of a relationship, but you find them out as you get the person. I get what you're saying, but if and when a person knows them and decides not to keep up with it oh well... you can't make a person be with you. Now if he knew them and he just doesn't see you want to change or something like that then he is in all his right, and it's time for you to move on
I don't guess you have a sit down and say "let me tell you about my faults." Smile.
You talk about yourself in general, and through dating you be yourself.
It is not like the 1700's where you send for a mail order bride.
Now, after you date and decide to move in, you still don't know everything, but you would know if your partner can get from point A to B. You'll know how they keep house, if you visit them. You'll know how they treat wait staff, and if they are religious or not.
Many things.
If you are doing the long distance thing, well you talk, and if everyones being honest, you learn things that way.
at this rate, if he ever does manage to get away from you, he'll likely stay gone, since it's so difficult to do to begin with.
Wayne and others are right. you don't specifically have a set conversation about your faults, but through being yourself, you get to know things about the one you're with, over time.
if there comes a point where you feel like certain things will be deal breakers, or where your partner feels that way, then, you all should definitely talk through things.
He knew that I am blind and he also knew that I have trouble getting from point A to b. Also he knew that I'm not a gourmet cook when it comes to food prep. And all this he found out the few times he visited me in my former home state when we were dating long distance at first before I moved in with hi in Missouri.
But there are times when people just don't know themselves. For example, did you know that you could be so clingy? Maybe not, but you do now. Sometimes, we need experience before we know ourselves and how we'd tend to react. I'm willing to put money on the fact that the first time he came to visit you, you did not say, "Oh, by the way, I'm extremely clingy, and if you ever decide you're not happy with me, i'll monipulate and guilt you in to giving me a second chance. I'll even make you feel sorry for me, if I must, and I'll put it out on the zone and let everyone else judge you too." No, you didn't say that, since you likely didn't know it at the time, but you know it now. That doesn't make you dishonest.
hmmm. It would just be nice if people were straight up front with their faults from the start. I am a straightforward person and I really try to be honest with others.
I agree with that, and honestly, I really wasn't trying to be a dick. I'm just pointing out that we don't always think of every single thing, good or bad, in every situation. Maybe he really thought he could deal with your issues when the relationship first began. Maybe he thought you'd change much faster than you have. Only he will truly know the answer to that.
it's very different to experience someone's shortcomings when you visit them while dating long distance versus living with that person--and their shortcomings--fulltime. Plus, when you're in the honemoon phase of dating, where all the flowers and pretty rainbows are just like your relationship---innoscent and pretty--and you're preoccupied with getting to know the one you're attracted to, you don't really notice that the person isnt' a "gourmet cook". or you don't really care at that point. it doesnt' hit you like it does when you move in together and your lover can't get him or herself anywhere alone, can't help make the meals, can't do laundry or whatever else--and you end up taking care of them in stead of both of you taking care of each other.
Sorry guys, but the dynamics of visiting someone and living with someone arent' the same, even if you visit for a few days or even weeks. You don't deal with things the same as you do when you live together. when you visit, everything is fresh and new, especially if you're long distance. From experience, I know that when you meet while in a long distance relationship, you focus on catching up on the physical aspect of your relationship--not even sex necessarily, but being in love at a close range, if you will. You focus on enhancing the good aspects of your relationship.
When you move in together, you face reality, and it's not wrapped in a pretty bow anymore. It's your life, not an escape from it. lol. While the spark may still be there very much so, the honemoon phase fades after a while, and then you finally figure out if you're up to the task of dealing with your partner's shortcomings... shortcomings you just began to discover that they bother you when you moved in. lol.
For instance, I love my partner dearly. And I knew he didn't brush his dog every day or vacuum very frequently. I knew that from visiting him. We were local at that point, even. But I figured, ok, so he doesnt' vacuum much... he has a dog. Well, maybe I can just do all the vacuuming--even though I hate it. or, well, we'll work on taking turns.. or he'll start to vacuum when we move in together because we're partners in all this, right? and so what. its' just a bit of hair.
When we moved in together, the hair drove me crazy with every passing day. I did the vacuuming in the beginning. I asked him to do some of it too. I asked him honestly but subtly--its' not nice to have a carpet of furr covering our floor sweety, can you please get rid of it and vacuum more frequently?
something to that effect.
But it didnt' phase him...and as tiem passed, I grew more and more aware of the damn hair. and of the dog that badly needed to be brushed, and of the fact that at this point, I was pregnant and had too much work with school and clients, and no desire to brust a dog that wasn't mine. Grrrrrrrrrr. Pissed I did get, the more I thought that our new baby would have to endure his daddy's lack of motivation to care for his dog properly and the furr that comes with it. lol
So I finally sat him down, and I said, look. I'm going nuts with the lack of vacuuming around her. I'm not doing all the work around her, it's your dogma dn if you want to live together and have us raise our baby together, you have to vacuum at least once every few days, dammit. that's yoru chore. I take care of the laundry, I do the dishes, we share cooking, but vacuuming and caring for yoru dog is yours. or else I'm gone from this place, or your dog is.
That hit him hard and gave him a wake up call. he vacuums fairly regularly now, but I still have to do some mild nagging every now and then. but the point is, our dynamics changed a bit once we moved in together. but we got through it thanks to communication and thanks to the fact that we're actualy compatible. . lol
I never lived with my ex, but even just from visiting him for a few weeks here and there I new he'd drive me nuts. We talked about moving in and it gave me the literal jitters to think about it. that was the sign that no, that ain't happening. lol.
I bet I'd have litarlly gone nuts if we had though, because I only just got a taste of his general clumpsiness and lack of competence when I visited him. Imagine hwo much more I would have discovered if we moved in together. I mean, the guy let an ATM eat MY fifty dollar bill for goodness sake because he didnt' know hwo to use it... Then he talked me into giving him another fifty, and he freaking dropped it on the way to the atm, so he lost tat one as well... That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. And he couldn't pay it back , of course, because he's jobless and he's my boyfriend... how dare I even ask, if I love him, what's mine is his, right?
hahahahaha
Yep. I saved myself a large amount of gray hairs and a stint in the looney bin. lol
Look guys. I don't know how many of you have actualy lived long-term with a partner or not, but here's the truth. When you visit, it's temporary. when you move in together, it's for the forseeable future. the pressure is greater when you live together. It might not be that big a deal to cook, clean, do laundry for someone for two-three weeks, even a month. Especially if you're just getting to physically know someone and, other than the lack of life skills--they're absolutely great. You know you're going home after the visit. You can cook for yourself then, and you'll be in your own space, on your own schedule, independent and no one will be depending on you.
Once you live with the person who can't take care of his/her basic skills, your home is theirs too. You have no refuge. lol. You do the cooking and the cleaning and the laundry not for two-three weeks, but for a year at least--if the lease is year long for instance. lol. there's a big difference.
And once you realize you're not totally ok with this longterm, you become resentful. you feel guilty--I knew this before but was it really this bad? I thought I could handle this... How do I tell her I can't. Goddammit, we're partners here... how come she cant' do some of this stuff... dammit, we've both made a change here, how come she cant' change. and so on.
The other part of this is we just fall out of love/lust/need, for another person.
Some can do this for life, but most can’t, and often time’s people get in to relationships for the pleasure/fun of it, so don’t really think about the future, and that isn’t bad.
I have cohabitated with others, and I have come to believe when a relationship is over, it is over.
I have said before, due to all you both seem to have done, the second chance has been had, so it is time for you to let it go and be single again.
I’m sure you are a lovely lady, and someone will love you for a season, for some reasons no matter what your faults are, but this season is over.
You are actually hurting yourself trying to make it last, because it will only get worse, and for the life of me, I can’t understand people that force relationships only to be living in misery, or fighting daily.
Sure, you probably have sex sometimes, and even fun, but that is out of need, not want, and that becomes a struggle, not pleasure.
I’m not pessimistic, but I don’t believe in the “that special one� I believe in love, for love sake, as love last.
Sure, it requires work in a sense, but shouldn’t be a job, if I’m making sense.
Time to get up early in the morning and find another love sweetie. Do it for you both.
Well said. I've cohabitated as well andit's defiitely way different from a mere visit. My last girlfriend was an absolute nightmare in that area not to mention the other trouble she caused. That's wy for the past year and more I've stayed single. Not to say that there haven't been women interested in me but I've stuck to my guns because I'm not sure any of them were really compatible and I know for a fact that some aren't because I've known them longterm. As for second chances I'm extremely particular about that. It would depend on what happened to end things in the first place among other things.
I personally think airing your dirty laundry was a foolish thing to do, original poster. However, what's done is done so I will give my two cents:
I think he may have some points about the independence issue. I seem to remember a former room mate of yours saying the same thing. Now, you say he is harsh with you? He may be overly harsh. It may also be that you perceive him as such because you take his frustrations as anger towards you. Okay, now for the cherry on your ice cream sundae...drumroll please! You tried to cook up an online relationship and moved quicly. In short, I think you should stay away from him romanticly. Enjoy your sundae and I'll be back in a few minutes with the check.
I guess there are two sides to the story, but one doesn't really know for sure. I
can't base my judgement on what others have said about a person because
that's probably a bit more foolish as airing one's dirty laundry. If I can't back
up my statement, I'd rather shut up, because I would just sound like an uptight
snob who thinks she's right. Besides, it's her dirty laundry and thus her choice
what she chooses to do with it. She got a lot of views, and it;s also up to her to
take them or not. i think it's good when someone recognizes they need help
with an issue, instead of bottling their emotions, don't you think? You gave
your two sense on this matter, so maybe you're just as foolish? Just saying. And
it's not up to you or me to define how quick or how slow she went into a
relationship, obviously she's paying for it. So there you go. Don't ride a police
horse, you could fall off.
I didn't see it as dirty laundry either. I saw it as a way to get her thoughts settled. Even is she disagrees, she has different prospective, and most of it was the same here.
Can I have an icecream too?
Smile.
Well, she can take what she wants from my views on the subject.
To be fair, Margorp just posted what the rest of us said in a slightly nicer manner, so why be so harsh with him? He has a point about the dirty laundry... I wonder how this girl's ex will like her now that she's so clearly posted about him. It's her personal dirty laundry and she can do with it what she pleases--but it's dirty laundry nonetheless. At least, the way in which she presented it made it so. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, no point in trying to label it something else, right? I'd personally be more tactful about asking for help in a public board, though I do consider many of you my friends--even if just to spare my ex some embarrasment if I were in her place. If I truly loved this ex, I wouldn't want to air all his business for everyone to see--including him--in a public manner which couldn't be erased. She kind of even put the guy's name and username in her first post... to be honest, I didnt' mention it but I didnt' think it was cool.
As for hearing things about someone--well, if enough people say the same thing about one person, it's kind of human nature for us to tend to believe the majority. Especially if the people saying the same thing are not interconnected. If margorp heard a former roommate complaining about someone's lack of independence and then a totally different person, namely this person's ex, complained about the same thing, unless the two complainers have some connection to each other besides knowing this mutual person they speak of, it lead him to think the stories were not merely consequence. Should he have brought it up? I dont' know . that's his call. But what I'm saying is: if enough people say something about someone and they have credibility to back it up, even the best of us who hate roomours are bound to see some truth in it.
My point was: his post was no more harsh than that of the rest of us who posted, his was just a little more blunt and a lot more funny, re: the Ice cream sundae thing. lol. So let's not jump down someone's throat for nothing. That's all.
I didn't. I just wanted an ice cream too.
I thought she was careful not to bad moth her boyfriend though. She doesn't say he wrong, just seems to tell it as she sees it.
We didn't say he was, because we don't know his side, nor him, and he's not posted.
She admitted she needs some changes, and seems to want advice as to if we flet it was faiir to ask for a second chance.
Do I get my ice cream?
No wayne, you don't. because you're wrong. she actually did say he was wrong. she felt he was wrong in wanting her to leave the apartment. go back to the first post and read it carefully if you want to understand how she implied that he's wrong. she also said he verbally abused her... but, the biggest offense, wayne, is that she let us know who this guy was... both his username on here and his first name. she let us know--thus she dragged him , specifically into the drama. She could have kept his name and his username out of it--that way, he as an individual could have stayed anonymous.
For example, wayne, let's just say for the sake of fun, that you came to visit me, and you ate me out of house and home in terms of ice ccream. you had so much ice cream, ice cream for breakfast, for lunch, for three different snacks and for dinner. and you only requested gourmet ice cream... I spend over three hundred dollars on ice cream alone during your stay. Let's say that's all I make in a month--I spent my entire month's wages on your ice cream addiction, wayne.
Now, what if I wanted to vent on here about it. I'd say, well, wayne(for real on here is a great person. I cherish his friendship. but I just spent a month's wages on his disgusting ice cream habbit and he want's to come back and visit again?
How would that make you feel? Because if I put your name out there like that, everyone would know you're an ice cream fiend and they wouldnt' let you visit. I'd have ruined your big plan to visit every girl on the zone and eat her ice cream.
but if I kept your name out of it, you could have still visited every girl on the zone and ate all the ice cream, and I could have still vented without dragging your name into it. You would not be impacted personally by my need for help or my need to rant, even though you were the person I wanted to rant about.
see?
Some thoughts and questions...
Why you need a second chance for you both? What will a second chance do for you?
What will be different if he does give you a second chance, or likewise, you give him a second chance?
Obviously, there are things that you both disagree with, and you do stated that you are rather dependent on him. I guess, you need to ask yourself, do you want a second chance so that you can continuestly depending on him, you liking the idea of having a man around, or, you really love him.
Doesn't matter what he thinks for the moment, it is what you think about yourself about this relationship that count.
Frankly speaking, from your posts so far, i feel that you are towards the idea that if you do continue on with him, you can dependent on him, and have him as a sex partner when you see fit, or when you both see fit. You mention that you willing to change, and be more adapting to him. However, what have you done so far to prove that you are commited to be different? What have you both done to prove to one another that both will be different from before.
If i'm you, i'll perhaps get away from the situation for a few months, get myself up skills in my level of independent and orientation and mobility skills.
Some people did mention and suggest you look in to some independent living training program. I honestly think, that will be a start for you.
It is not about him, is about you, what you want in your life, in the future.
Good luck, all the best
Damn! Guess I don't get no ice cream!
Seriously, I guess it is perception. Sure, she does say what she thinks he does, but she says he's generally a nice guy. She seems to take pains to make that known, and seems to state his reactions as a case for, "this is happening, so does this mean it is over, or can it be mended."
Sure, she said his name, but she has said so many times they date.
I don't think people struggling with a solution, think about all the ins and outs of how they might ask for suggestions, they simply describe the situation best they can.
I do wonder if she will accept the verdict here.
Bernadetta said, " I'd have ruined your big plan to visit every girl on the zone and eat her ice cream.
"
So, is that really what they call it these days?
Anthony. I love that you got it. even wayne didn't get it. You're officially fantastic. lol.
Ah! Well, my excuse was it was early?
Smile.
Very good Nernadetta; good way to explain the situation and I do agree with you. :)
First of all, I've seen other people list names in posts well at least a username. Secondly, he and I have decided it is for the best that we don't get back together. Both of us still love and care about each other, but it's not going to work a second time. I am still planning on working on some of the issues that I need to but not for his sake and it never has been for him. I have decided to move out due to the fact that it is too stressful just dealing with all the bullshit any longer. I am looking into going to one of those centers but right now I am getting things figured out with my rehab counselor as far as work and all. So for all you who want to hate on me and think I'm not doing shit about any of it, well, think what you will. Have a great day thank you.
right, getting defensive sure is going to help your case...
I'n not getting deffensive, just telling how it is. I am a straightforward person and bluntly honest.
I personally wasn't "hating" on you. You asked a question, right? When you do this, you will receive responses, and all won't be as you like them to be.
I'm happy to note you are moving on.
You're moving on? Good because that was what you eventually would have to
do. I doubt anyone is hating on you. Read the post before mine. Keep that in
mind next time you seek advice or input. Don't turn your issues around on us, I
call bullshit on being straightforward and bluntly honest. Just saying. Good luck
with resolving your conflicts.
This is definitely not a blind thing. I had this discussion with an older relative over Facebook. She posed a 'What do you think' question. What she really wanted was an ecdho chamber saying her bronze-age beliefs are wonderful. However, I and my brother, both of us completely not of her persuasion, answered the question.
Short explanation: Don't ask 'what do you think' when what you want is an echo chamber for your beliefs or what you want to do. If you want a rubber stamp for this, you need to say so.
This is a common problem in the United States. Come to think of it, I actually don't know how someone looking for an echo chamber would phrase their request for one. I happen not to do the confirmation bias thing.
I doubt such people would make it known that all they wanted was people to reaffirm their stance. if they did, they likely wouldn't be able to create the drama they're also seeking.
I don't think anyone was hating on you. We don't know you wel enough to do so, nor are we invested enough. You asked for advice, you got it. If it was too harsh for you, that's not an issue for us to deal with--so no need to get offensive.
Ultimately, it looks like you're making decent choices for yourself at this point. Maybe it took you a while to realize them and make them happen, but in the end, the fact that you're getting it does matter.
Only snag in your last comment: "First of all, I've seen other people list names in posts well at least a username."
Just because you've seen other peopel do something doesnt' mean it's ok to do it. lol. I've seen people steal from stores, but that would never justify my potential crime. I've seen other people ridicule their exes, drag them through family courts, engage in vicious, name-calling custody battles--but I would never resort to such painful drama myself, even if my partner had really hurt me or did me wrong. I've known of peopel overdosing on heroine--I've seen peopel commit suicide--but that doesnt' make either act ok and wise.
Now then. Seeing others call their respective partners out on public boards by usernames, first names, what have you--doesn't make it a viable way of getting help, venting or what have you.
Just my oppinion.
Well you could post and say "everyone that agrees with this opinion I want to hear from you." Smile.
I welcome all opinions. Thank you all for the advice whether it was harsh or not but I have taken all advice under consideration. Perhaps someday he and I can be friends but for now I am doing what's best for me and that is to move forward with my life.
perhaps you won't ever be friends. either way, it sounds like you're finally headed down the right track. I hope that continues.
I am fine with us not being friends.
Hey, so my ex and I are working on getting back together. He was the one who approached me saying he wanted to talk to me about us. He apologized and admitted that he was wrong for a lot of things that has happened. I believe it takes a real man to do that cause I know no other ex I've been with would ever do that. That is why I'm willing to get back with this guy. Plus both of us are in love with each other still. We are taking things slowly though. Both of us are willing to put the past four months behind us and everything that happened during that time apart. Eventually we will move back in together cause he wants me to move back in. I told him I wanted to take it slow first. I will not be able to do any of those programs at the Colorado center or that Alpha Pointe program because my rsb counselor had me go through one of those evaluation programs and I have a job coach now to help me find work. That stuff takes a year or so and if I'm working, I can't really do those out of state or city programs.
hi and I hope it all works out for you this time and I gave some one another go but unfortunately the same problem occurred which was to do with distance but we did give it the best go we could and so I've learnt that some times it will work and other times it won't, it depends on what you and the guy you were with are willing to do so good luck, smiles.
Hey, so I wanted to let yall know that I did give him a second chance, we are back together but we are working on our issues. We had been apart for six months and before we got back together, we decided to leave the pastin the past so anything he and I did regarding having sex with whoever, we talked about not bringing all that shit up in future arguments. All tht doesn't really matter now anyway. He was the one who asked me to come back and apologized. I like a guy who can admit he is wrong and it takes a real man to do that kind of thing.
well good luck. smile
Hey there,
Just putting my 2 cents worth here.
I went through almost the same thing you. There was this girl you see, that I fell head over heals for. She was awesome in every way. But as time passed, she started being abusive mentally and such to me. It lasted about 2 years. We never did date, which now I'm pretty glad about, but I always thought it was my fault. In my eyes, maybe that was her way of loving me or caring about me? That's what I was thinking at the time.
This guy doesn't sound like a treat to me. I know this is an old post, but once someone is jealous, with say the friends with benifits crap, for example, yet, they are the one who said it was ok in the first place, sounds like they don't deserve someone like you.
Private message me sometime. I'd love to talk about this more, and assist you, if possible.
Hope I have helped.